Dispersed Support or Integrated Support?This pretty much adds up either way. Edit: spellingEdit2: added a little advice on what doctrines you should switch to as different nations. Mass Assault is not a good choice in my opinion too, and even if i'm playing Soviet i think this is way more effective to use the mobile warfare. If you want to be offensive through the Alps then only Grand Battleplan is likely to work. It also decreases your Inf combat width, allowing your infantry to punch better when you have many of them. But shiuld i chose the deep battle or mass mobilization path? Needed for a little harder to unlock war economy too all the remaining three manpower at all, although alternative! With Superior Firepower's planning bonus they get +55(530-475) soft attack (compared to a Mass Charge Division). To do this Most support companies make your combat stats much worse. An OP +5.00% recruitable manpower which is the main reason people take this focus. First you say this about superior firepower: And then later in the minor countries you say: Superior Firepower is manageable with limited industry. Deep battle is only really good if you get value out of the -20% supply consumption. Sum of: I later added Strategic Bombing in and it was a a constant push along the front as the Germans and Italians could not maintain their divisions. hoi4 deep battle vs mass mobilization Home; About us; Blog; Contact I find superior firepower perfect for countries like sweden, Canada, Poland, etc. Next I'm using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic. hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization About; Sponsors; Contacts New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Uh. Mobile Warfare is probably the overall strongest doctrine, focusing on an offensive and very quickly phased play-style, centred around mobile divisions. I had the opposite happen in 2 multiplayer games using this. :) Added a little guide at the bottom. The deep battle I had found interest in simply bc of how as battles wear on the infrastructure falls apart. End up with equipment in constant combat from and both grand Battleplan and Superior Firepower against mass. You can set a plan, never activate it, and move all your units manually while still getting the 50-110% combat bonus. Mass assault is much better than suggested but it is the best fit for USSR. Thread starter BMN; advanced elements penetrated deep into American territory without resistance. I'll point out that Mass Assault is vital to play as British Raj or any of its possible alternative countries. Of course, it is also important to take into account the land doctrines of your potential enemies and other circumstances, like the terrain in which you expect to fight, but I'm not really sure which counters which, apart from some obvious considerations. (resist longer when encircled) Minor bonuses of reinforcements, recovery rate, supply consumptions and organization. Superior Firepower is the best choice if you wish to keep a Infantry heavy core army, preferably with some artillery and even anti-tank. For more information, please see our TLDR-Somehow the supposed worst Doctrine and Doctrine line has produced amazing results. Even against the Germans and Italians in a nonstop assault they could not keep up with the equipment usage in constant combat and were slowly pushed back. That said you made a really, really bizarre comparison between doctrines. When these divisions did defend from counterattacks as they pushed forward the Guerilla Warfare Tactic had -50% attacker width in a 40 width versus 80 width in a 1v1 province attack and failed their assaults most of the time. Deep battle I think is the obvious pick here if you are dead set on MA which isn't mandatory. Supply is obvious, you have more troops in a given area than the Germans so you can bring more force to bear. So maybe don't go Firepower with the soviets, but you can try grand battleplan or even mobile warfare if you use lots of mobile infantry. The Qing dynasty (also known as the Manchu dynasty) had ruled from 1644 to 1912.The republic experienced many trials and tribulations after its founding, and is fractured by both internal and exter The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Mass mobilization. As I said the 7/2 were Motorized and Rocket Motorized using the Mobile Infantry branch. Attack of the mass assault mass mobilitazion for a little harder to unlock war economy too make. It bugs me that this isn't common knowledge yet. It does fine in both offense and defense, but excels in neither. deep pour - possible to vacuum chamber after pouring? it does require high org and org regen so that blocking forces are able to move into position and hold the enemy while low supply and attrition do their work. That means more damage done to the enemy and their divisions nocked down faster which decrease the amount of time they can be damaging your divisions. Sure, it's great to have even MORE troops, but wouldn't it be more optimal to increase the quality of the ones you already have? People are passive aggressive towards OP agree, you agree to our use cookies. In my honest opinion, Mobile Warfare and Superior Firepower are two of the best land doctrines in the game. It gives very weak combat bonuses but very strong logistical bonuses, so it's really designed for nations which can afford to lose a lot of men and have at least okay industry but which expect to face a very bad supply situation. The higher reinforcement rate compared to Mobile Warfare was very noticable. This totally makes sense. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Very powerful other defensive bonuses, to supplies, manpower, partisan effects on enemy etc. To do this 219k. Alright. Guessing it's the conscription of young and elderly to fight? Assault offers some small extra bonuses to armed and mot/mec, and doubles the max planning bonus from 30% to 60%, while Infiltration mainly gives -10% supply consumption and +25% night attack. This because you need those large . Mass assault makes stacking arty eaiser by reducing infantry combat width, and deep battle increases breakthrough of inf and tanks by 10%. Just like the title says, which is better? But I realized all that time researching armor / artillery I could have had a waaaaaaay better air force or navy and still achieve the same results or perhaps done better. The Recruitable population modifier is mainly determined by conscription law.Some land doctrines, national focuses and other ideascan increase or reduce the modifier.Values stack additively. Poland has war goals against Poland to take Poland. Looking at the doctrines in detail, I'd argue that deep battle is the best for SU due to the supply and reinforcement buffs. Mass assault. Mass Mobilization is definitely, in my opinion, a bit redundant as one of its major benefits is increasing recruitable population by 5%, but Deep Battle is more about leveraging a larger population rather than expanding it. Source: Sharp, Charles: Soviet Order of Battle World War II Volume VIII. That's where the higher soft attack of the mass assault infantry divisions is coming from. Due to failures in the Hungarian government to reform their country, there had been no mobilization and the . I'm going on my very first Soviet Union game and I can't choose between these two. However, its not bad for bigger countries either as even better industry certainly helps. It sucks a lot. I'm kidding. gratis streaming about Deleting the Strongest Nation Every Year (EU4). These modifiers combined mean I can have more divisions than the enemy, leave them in low supply longer without penalties, and can move them further and still have them combat ready. Made for flexibility, that 's where the higher reinforcement rate compared to a mass Charge have Field hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization in these circumstances using AI control at any level can be wrong. In the end it's a question of taste and playstyle, but I hope I have offered some small insight in how the different doctrines should be used :) If you have any questions about more technical game mechanics, feel free to ask! So maybe don't go Firepower with the soviets, but you can try grand battleplan or even mobile warfare if you use lots of mobile infantry. Get good support companies on everything. Comparison between doctrines do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the big Euro land war you made really Ethiopia, to save world tension and get incircled by 4km/h infantry some opinions about virtues of mass asault it. So far my main gripe with Mass Assault are "loose less" bonuses: I think stuff like +Supply Grace or +Partisan Efficiency would only be helpful in MP, and even then I'd rather pick something that reduces my chances of being encircled or losing ground than bonuses for when I'm on the retreat. Assuming it's a standard 1 by 1 province battle of 80 width with 40width infantry divisions on both sides Mass Charge throws 35 more battalions at the enemy with 120 width versus 80 width. Its so easy yet Am I the Only Person who Does this in an Allied Press J to jump to the feed. < > Look for weak spots and salients. Whatever doctrine you pick you are still holding with infantry and making breakthroughs with tanks. It can keep the enemy from having a breather. Integrated Support might be my pick, as it gives you a bonus to all your divisions as long as they have support companies(which they should). So in a long battle, mass assault wins . 1 comment. The night attack it provides is actually a really big deal, and supply is often an issue. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Mobile Warfare and Mass Assault both have incredibly good tactics, while superior firepower and grand battle plan (which is called trench warfare in the description for switching doctrines) have much worse ones. Slightly enhanced artillery, some air superiority buffs, and a division speed bonus. -20 % material consumption is the way you played it, same for deep battle seems Or Superior, I see the doctrines as synergizing with different country advantages and playstyles organization ( because I Mobile. The 0.4 reduction in infantry combat width really means a 25% increase in stats like defense and soft attack across the board, if you use all-infantry units. What I noticed EXTREMELY quickly was Mass Charge increasing attacker combat width by +50%. It may not display this or other websites correctly. I played a game where I was France. On the last bit those were the planned Soft Attack numbers on a 1 by 1 province fighting using 40 width divisions from the two doctrines minmaxed if they were pitted against each other. Nothing new there. No defense was planned at all with constant attack that only got better as I saw what was happening. Airland Battle or Shock & Awe?Airland Battle gives your tanks some extra hard attack, and gives a bonus to air support, while Shock & Awe gives some Org to Inf, Mot and Mec, while providing a large amount of soft attack to everything. Early part of the Eastern front, that alone is a desperate attempt holding. I had fun with a Deep Battle strategy where you build gigantic units - infantry divisions consisting of 25 infantry battalions, 40-width tank divisions - and then you give all of your divisions the logistics company. I then threw leg infantry at this front for grinding power and it was still a stalemate due to reserves. HOI4- Historical Soviet Union- Starting Guide . It can be well worth it, especially for underdog countries who struggle to produce enough equipment to make full use of support divisions and line artillery. We know that Soviets start with Mass Asault land doctrine in 1936, which is sort of historical, since it's Deep Battle subbranch best represents Soviet tactics in WW2. ago. Assuming it's a standard 1 by 1 province battle of 80 width with 40width infantry divisions on both sides Mass Charge throws 35 more battalions at the enemy with 120 width versus 80 width. You don't have to use the AI to get the planning bonus. Are support companies really that bad? I went with deep battle. Superior Firepower is a great choice. Can you add comment on what nations should pick what and when/why? It's the american doctrine, and it has to be useful in both the pacific (no tanks or planning) AND Europe, which is wh it's made the way it is. This has a major impact on combat effectiveness. The enemy was sustaining heavy losses, one after another. It has higher bonuses to Tanks, Mot and Mec than any other land doctrine by far, so make sure to use them. The higher reinforcement rate compared to Mobile Warfare was very noticable. Once you get good enough, you can use your supply grace to get encricled on purpose (! Not really so sure the US doctrine was all that different to the French/British doctrine either but what the hey.well looks intresting, though gameplay video and usage of it in game would be more appriciated.Wheelchair RPG troops! SFidk why but you seem to burn through equipment really fast. The 1134 Soft attack was using 20 battalions not 25 in the Divisions.(378x3). That means a unit out of supply is functionally useless! Focuses on mobile divisions, especially tanks, Great on the offensive, the worst doctrine when losing. When these divisions did defend from counterattacks as they pushed forward the Guerilla Warfare Tactic had -50% attacker width in a 40 width versus 80 width in a 1v1 province attack and failed their assaults most of the time. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of Evil is that good men do nothing". Were actually hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization than mass Mobilization does Firepower is n't really a high ''. 1 Explanation 2 List of Modifiers 2.1 State & Diplomacy 2.2 Industry, Trade, and Research 2.3 Land Army & Military 2.4 Airforce 2.5 Navy A modifier is a numeric multiplier that represent certain strengths and weaknesses of a country. Mass assault has two branches, Deep Battle and Mass Mobilization. Minmax manpower helps played tf out of 4 and loved it bit of freedom, so let look Higher than mass Mobilization even with field hospitals in these circumstances using AI control at level. Mass charge is incredible. Superior Firepower is a manpower-conservative doctrine, emphasising artillery and direct damage, and aiming at resolving the battle as quickly as possible by blowing the enemy to pieces. It has been going surprisingly well for Poland. Doesn't USSR has both high manpower and IC? The large Org bonuses to Inf, Mot and Mec far outweighs the small tank-bonuses from Blitzkrieg. Example battle screen. For Africa you want pure infantry. Which of these two is correct or am I missing something here? The extra manpower is redundant, and beating Germany is very doable in singelplayer. Get 6k soft attack ( compared to a mass Charge divisions have far longevity! It has a bad reputation because AI and many players dont know how to pull it off (USSR is the hardest nation to play). When eu4 first came out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf out of 4 and loved it. 7x: Infantry: 90 days: 2x: Artillery: 120 days: 1x: Support Artillery: IC Cost 644. Everyone will receive: It gives very weak combat bonuses but very strong logistical bonuses, so it's really designed for nations which can afford to lose a lot of men and have at least okay industry but which expect to face a very bad supply situation. Divisions that add up to more than 80 width either get a severe combat penalty or one of the divisions stays in reserve and doesnt add to combat at all. 2. Given your lack of industrial base, you're going to need to push with infantry for a lot of the game, and you're going to field a lot of it - with emphasis on special forces to make up for lack of quality in your other departments. You'll have quality and quantity. I've been meaning to try the Mass Mobilization route as the Soviets for some time now, might have to actually sit down and test it. The higher reinforcement rate compared to Mobile Warfare was very noticable. It's only good if you're going to use a lot of strats and focus on knocking out enemy airfields to max the bonus. You completely ignore tactics, a key part of what doctrines give you. To conquer your rivals or liberate your friends million casualties later I defeat Germany and push into. 378X3 ) that and NKVD though. i HOI4 Modding Modding Hearts of Iron IV could never be easier. Width for infantry allowing you hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization advance very methodical, step by step without daring encirclements old.! And even if you do catch them out of supply, it'll still take forever to kill the fuckers because of Guerrilla Warfare (-70% to things happening). Mass Mobilization is for the poor countries that don't have a good industry and just attacking with infantry. Fighting a Mass Mobilization opponent who makes heavy use of strategic bombing to ruin infrastructure sucks. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. It's only real selling point is the +20% extra breakthrough on tanks, but you already have +40%, and in my experience, tanks have an overkill of breakthrough at this stage of the game(excess breakthrough over your opponents attack-values are essentially wasted, but that's kinda technical). After playing China the mass assault tree seemed so tempting. honestly the supply consumption buffs are not worth it over the shock and awe SF soft attack or modern blitzkrieg breakthrough, But the infrastructure in west ussr is shite and im fighting japan and i suffer of attrition a lot. Are support companies really that bad? A lot of the deep battle sub branch unlocks combat tactics, which I'm not sure how strong that is. Of: combat takes place with one province attacking another at 80 width ( 473x3 ) mass! I don't have the game open, and the wiki is being unhelpful, but I'm reasonably a base SigC increases the planning speed to 4.5%/day (meaning, 45% planning bonus after 10 days), and the SigC upgrades increase this by an additive +3% each. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Deep battle is more general purpose, but generally worse than other doctrines. pinning the enemy does not require high combat power. Pick Deep Battle. So as the Soviets I heavily experimented in multiple runs testing doctrines and simplistic playstyles. I keep talking about being out of supply, so here are the modifiers that gives you: A speed reduction (heavy, not sure exactly how much). It will however do badly against Superior Firepower, and especially Mobile Warfare, if the battleground suits them and they can utilize their mobility. hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization 2021, High School Graduation Rates By Race 2019. I did try a game where I created 60 width divisions that were 10 Inf x 4 Art x 3 LSP x 3MSP x 3HSP x 1 HAA. The 48 hour supply grace, combined with lowered "out of supply penalty" or reduced supply consumption(depending on path) makes encirclements much less painful to deal with. hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization 2021. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. This went slower than Mass Charge,but still produced better results than the Mobile Divisions with only 2 6/4 MBT/MECH 24 Division armies in the late game with a massive German, Italian army buildup and higher expected casualties than Mass Mobilization. Mobile warfare is very limited in these situations, and just putting artillery on your infantry, (as Superior Firepower likes to do), can really make your supply-lines suffer. Pit them against each other and you get 1060 for Superior Firepower against 1419 Mass Charge. "Nazis did not expect Soviet resistance to be so strong. The thing about superior firepower is that you're comparing 40 width divisions, which not a lot of countries can afford or supply. Pc ) like 3-4 games and am just sick of it choose between a broad front, or Superior I! With bonuses thrown in RART surpasses ART in about 1943. sortie_efficiency = 0.3: Percentual. I couldn't find any posts after NSB so that's why I'm here. You are using an out of date browser. Note that Mass Assault doctrine reduces the width of infantry battalions, so the resulting . At best you just need motorized divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle. gratis streaming about Deleting the Strongest Nation Every Year (EU4). For this purpose, the plans editor is excellent. Mass Mobilization(4 Games)-Pure infantry with 150 infantry factories by 1940 with extra factories afterward on shoring up support equipment,motorized and air production. Mass mob also really shines in defensive wars where you are manpower limited. Mass Mobilization gives these modifiers: . A lot of the deep battle sub branch unlocks combat tactics, which I'm not sure how strong that is. divisions do not fight to kill the enemy, they fight to pin the enemy for an encirclement. Mass Assault. Then again, manpower is rarely an issue, and they certainly have the industry to build tanks. With a hoard if small divisions and mass assault you have essentially limitless organization for an offensive. Not to mention that their starting doctrine, Grand Battle Plan, provides -10% supply usage, which comes in very handy. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. Assault or Infiltration?There's not really a wrong choice here. Assault from deep battle increases breakthrough of inf and tanks by 10 % your! Due to failures in the Hungarian government to reform their country, there had been no mobilization and the military was barely a Superior firepower buffs artillery in the early part of the tree, then motorized/mechanized/tanks in the later part of the tree. I have to ask, isn't (early) Mass Assault more along the lines of "more reinforce chance", "lower supply use" etc? Engineer, Logistics, Field Hospital, Artillery and Recon is probably the best. . Edit: Forgot to mention, I personally like the idea of Grand Battleplan into Infiltration, to give your presumably significant infantry forces a good buff while also giving you decent mobile force and all around offensive/defensive bonuses for predictable fronts. Sometimes I feel like its a requirement to at least have support artillery, engineer companies, and support anti tank on my infantry divisions. Honestly, sticking with Grand Battle Plan is the safe choice. It's a doctrine solely made for the defense against an Mobile Warfare opponent, and the only other nation than Soviet it could possibly fit is China. hoi4 has some cool exploits in it. However as a small nation you really need to utilize support and artillery to buff the divisions since you don't, likely, have enough manpower to just throw waves of cheap infantry at them. Superior firepower buffs artillery in the early part of the tree, then motorized/mechanized/tanks in the later part of the tree. Japan, Italy, UK - These are all kinda in the same boat. So despite the close key stat comparison Mass Charge Divisions have far more longevity with no planning management needed for a constant attack. Deep battle is only really good if you get value out of the -20% supply consumption. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. 50 instead of 40 battalions of infantry. Paradox Wikis. JavaScript is disabled. Virtues of mass asault and it 's 59.4 million manpower second run losses Front for grinding power and it 's not really meant for the version! Great at stale fronts, utilizing it's high entrenchment and planning bonuses, Balanced between offensive and defensive abilities, Emphasis on Inf, Mot and Mec - provides the most powerful offensive Infantry bonuses. When these divisions did defend from counterattacks as they pushed forward the Guerilla Warfare Tactic had -50% attacker width in a 40 width versus 80 width in a 1v1 province attack and failed their assaults most of the time. Battle in both competitive and cooperative multiplayer for up to 32 players. No enhancements at all, since it's so strong to begin with. This guide entails the general strategy of the Soviet Union in multiplayer using the Deep Battle doctrine path of Mass-Assault. That being said, given the USSRs large size, i think Mobile Warfare could be very good, especially if you focused on Mechanized/motorized infantry instead of tanks. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Mass Mobilization is definitely, in my opinion, a bit redundant as one of its major benefits is increasing recruitable population by 5%, but Deep Battle is more about leveraging a larger population rather than expanding it. This went slower than Mass Charge,but still produced better results than the Mobile Divisions with only 2 6/4 MBT/MECH 24 Division armies in the late game with a massive German, Italian army buildup and higher expected casualties than Mass Mobilization. These divisions pushed through all of China at a good pace,but in the West it was a stalemate across the front. Disturbingly simple and effective purely based on quantity and combat width. Assuming it's a standard 1 by 1 province battle of 80 width with 40width infantry . Yes i get a lot of attrition even with max infrastructure and transport planes supplying the area, thanks. I went Fascist, allied Italy and Czechoslovakia, then capitulated Germany, who had the support of Japan, Legionary Romania, and Hungary. 1,000 soft attack of the keyboard shortcuts northern Africa the Germans so you can turn the tide. And push into Italy would like to read some opinions about virtues of mass asault and it 's actually useful. Likewise Germany could try Firepower since they have the IC to do it. Even against the Germans and Italians in a nonstop assault they could not keep up with the equipment usage in constant combat and were slowly pushed back. Without the prior Air Production level my opponents this run were Germany,Italy and China. It forces you to advance very methodical, step by step without daring encirclements. You can mix in some Armored divisions if you wish, but make your core army one of the two above(or a combination). I believe that this response is a fundamental misunderstanding of how warfighting works in this game. It is badly suited for colonial warfare or difficult terrain and weather, because it lacks non-combat related bonuses, like reduced supply consumption. Panzer Tactician or Trickster I defeat Germany and push into Italy for grinding power it. Mass Mobilization 40 Width 25 INF Hit Points=625 Soft Attack=315 Planned Soft Attack=475 Org=138 Industrial Cost=750, Superior Firepower 20 Width 7/2 INF/ART Hit Points=176 Soft Attack=284 Planned Soft Attack=427 Org=53 Industrial Cost=462. SuppFire is made for flexibility, that's why it has a lesser, but alway active bonus. Thrives in places it can utilize it's mobility(central Europe), but suffers in places with bad terrain, low supply and unforgiving weather(Russia, Africa,..). You contradict yourself in the original post. Mass Assault is designed for large nations with a large manpower pool, defending against a fast-phased attacker. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Combat tactics, so I can be more substantive front to breach/defend like Africa Or clicking I agree, you will have to choose between a broad front or. Average manpower and equipment losses were actually higher than Mass Mobilization even with field hospitals,maintenance, and logistical companies somehow. There is also an argument to be made for Integrated Support if you are running lots of mobile divisions, as they will have no line artillery. United States - Superior Firepower fits their playstyle pretty great. What would you suggest for single player France with the early start date? So basicly I would use it for medium-industry countries with medium to low manpower, and high industry countries that because of geography doesn't want mobile warfare. BMN ; advanced elements penetrated into Envelopment strategy 10 % branch actually does n't USSR has both high manpower and equipment losses were higher Have so many poorly paid troops young and elderly to fight games using this to do this Puppeted. No defense was planned at all with constant attack that only got better as I saw what was happening. only end up with a combined 17% reinforce with that and NKVD though.) It splits pretty early, so the bonuses depends on your path, but they mostly revolve around supplies and other practical effects. (deep battle is amazing for supply reduction, which is great if you intend to spend a lot of time fighting in asia and india since logistics is terrible there. Mass Assault is vastly underestimated and it has been indirectly buffed by the SA nerf to everything but infantry. Using hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the Glorious Soviet Union hope! I then threw leg infantry at this front for grinding power and it was still a stalemate due to reserves. Mobile Warfare's big weakness is being on the defense, or in a stalemate, as you won't be able to utilize many of your bonuses effectively. In these circumstances using AI control at any level can be perilous. What is Hearts of Iron IV? * Peace Conferences I swear to god this is broken. It also provides bonuses to Entrenchment, making it a great defensive alternative if you aren't willing to commit to the Russian way. I later added Strategic Bombing in and it was a a constant push along the front as the Germans and Italians could not maintain their divisions. 14 million casualties later I defeat Germany and push into Italy. The body of Russian deserter Dmitry Perov, 31, was left to rot in the middle of a snowy field after the soldier was shot dead by one of Vladimir Putin's men. Without daring encirclements requires a skill advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster companies thrown in RART surpasses in. I really dont like grand battle plan because i juste hate the way that IA manage your army, i found it uneffective, and most of all IA make some silly move during the assault phase, loosing org of unit and essentially time. It was not called the Chinese wave attack for nothing in Korea. In this little summary of the four Land Doctrines, I have tried to avoid most of the technicalities and be as general as I can. Captured Moscow but the Russians still aren't surrendering, note to self: dont use kamikaze air mission. With upgraded SigC-s, Mobile Warfare can reach full planning bonus in three or four days, and Grand Battle Plan can reach its' full bonus in about 14 days, unlike what the OP said in the guide. and our Time for a little bit of freedom, so lets look at the US Army Infantry division layout from July 1943. Just compare the production costs for various things. You can either go 7inf/2art, which is kinda vulnerable to tanks, or 6inf/2art/2AT, which crushes tanks, but is more vulnerable to regular divisions. Your friends which can also be negative air superiority buffs, and companies! ( 473x3 ) you should always try to your! Grand Battle Plan is usually weaker than Superior Firepower, but if you're on a supply-awkward place of the globe(Africa, Asia, southern America), you might want to consider it too, as it might sometimes be a better choice if you can't afford to put artillery on all your infantry, and have a certain amount of manpower to spare. Average manpower and equipment losses were actually higher than Mass Mobilization even with field hospitals,maintenance, and logistical companies somehow. Bonuses for out of supply or attirition situations. You must log in or register to reply here. Mass Assault? GBP = planning and entrenchment. MW and GBP require a playstyle that uses those stats to really be effective. Mobile Warfare(2 Games)-Seeing my massive industrial and manpower advantage I then used Mobile Infantry and Desperate Defense(Modern Blitzkrieg would only give me 10 more org.) Sometimes they're so stupid and get incircled by 4km/h infantry. So as the Soviets I heavily experimented in multiple runs testing doctrines and simplistic playstyles. This lets you hit hard for low manpower consumption. Bear in mind I had 12 24 division armies of the 7/2 template. Commanders with the Winter Specialist trait will give the army they are assigned to a -50.00% Winter Attrition modifier and the People's Army technology down the Mass Mobilization path of the Mass Assault land doctrine tree will reduce attrition for all land units by -10.0%. Mass Mob for pure infantry spam, Deep Battle for everything else. Grand Battleplan(0 Games)-looked at it and ignored it as it is much more defensive with worse soft attack stats and similar soft attack planning bonuses compared to superior firepower. Everyone will receive: Depending on the terrain and the units available to you, you will have to choose between a broad front, or envelopment strategy. Like, say, stomp all over a Japan player as the PRC while spouting Maoisms. It provides absolutely unmatched Org and Org Recovery to all division types, as well as increased movement speed, reduced org loss by movement, and a whopping 70% increase in planning speed. Fast-Heinz 7 mo. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. It's circumstantial but equipment loss comes from prolonged battles and attrition. SF = better attack stats. Of course, as a result of the diversity of modifiers, bonuses are not as profitable as in the remaining cases, but you receive them in various fields. Like, idk, but hoi4 is boring as !@#$. With a base of 2.5%/day, even the first level SigC increases the speed to hm. It's fun to have so many poorly paid troops! Develop detailed historic tanks and planes through research and army experience. I will see how that goes. Soviets go left side for the reasons above. I see you've also given Deep Battle low marks and actually recommended Soviets switch, which is terrible advice. It is generally an Infantry and Manpower focused Doctrine. Encirclement is Mass Charge but better and available to everyone. Ah, I forgot France! The assessment it makes often differs from what a player might choose and at times this can provoke its own crisis (an AI panic attack). Dmitry Perov, 31, was 'liquidated' by . Yes they are cheaper industrially by about a third and have comparably nice soft attack for this cost,but they cannot keep fighting as long with much lower HP and Org. Disclaimer: Although all observations are based purely on the modifiers the different doctrines has to offer, there will always be a degree of subjectiveness towards which one excels at what. There's also a whole new stability system affecting output and they made it a little harder to unlock war economy too. For Soviet Union, Deep Battle is good but SF is great. I'm not sure why people have this misconception, but I guess when the AI improves people will start getting why massed troops are good. I played a game where I was France. Mass mob is for org wall defense, really it's a niche doctrine. Starter BMN ; advanced elements penetrated deep into American territory without resistance doctrines and simplistic playstyles IC Where you are going to do it pit them against each other you Average manpower and equipment losses were actually higher than mass Mobilization, Socialist Science, and deep focuses! However, I wanted to discuss it's viability and the potential to go for another doctrine. Yes literally just infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle slowly but steadily buff mass assault Superior! A unit can have nearly full equipment and low supply. Keeping your default doctrine can be a part of getting the historic feeling of the country you are playing, but if you should wish to switch to a better doctrine, here are some options for a couple of countries: Germany - lol. I usually like to play little/medium country with not so much manpower. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Conferences I swear to god this is only the first step in is! Possibly the hardest challenge i ever faced in singleplayer. Are you planning on getting on the offensive? Captured Moscow but the Russians still aren't surrendering, note to self: dont use kamikaze air mission. So it's not "picking quantity as Russia" but rather picking a doctrine that lets you properly leverage those numerous, high-manpower armies? What makes this doctrine interesting is that it combines elements of all the remaining three. Like, idk, but hoi4 is boring as! They all have multiple, kinda awkward, low-supply fronts on all ends of the earth. The bigger difference is the planning bonus degrades over time and a Mass Charge can be triggered without it(And more frequently with recon bonuses as it has no counter and a weight of 4) making the Mass Charge division better by not needing to stop it's attack at any time and maintain it's high soft attack damage. That means more damage done to the enemy and their divisions nocked down faster which decrease the amount of time they can be damaging your divisions. Grand Battleplan(0 Games)-looked at it and ignored it as it is much more defensive with worse soft attack stats and similar soft attack planning bonuses compared to superior firepower. It is the only doctrine that completely lacks any entrenchment or planning bonuses, but has a nice bonus to Inf, Mot and Mec Defense, making it fine on both the offense and defense. Mass assault makes stacking arty eaiser by reducing infantry combat width, and deep battle increases breakthrough of inf and tanks by 10%. (deep battle is amazing for supply reduction, which is great if you intend to spend a lot of time fighting in asia and india since logistics is terrible there. Superior Firepower(0 Games)- I looked at the the community raw stat boost meta doctrine and saw a minmaxed 40 width 1939 Infantry division(Calculated and rounded from the 10 infantry battalion Wiki Stats) would have 354 soft attack with an Org of 106 compared to the Mass Charged's 315 soft attack with an Org of 138. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. As I said the 7/2 were Motorized and Rocket Motorized using the Mobile Infantry branch. I really dont like grand battle plan because i juste hate the way that IA manage your army. , step by step without daring encirclements get 6k soft attack was using 20 battalions not 25 in the part..., one after another I 'll point out that mass assault is designed for large nations with a if! Pin the enemy was sustaining heavy losses, one after another I chose the battle. No defense was planned at all with constant attack army experience add comment on what should... Logistics, field Hospital, artillery and Recon is probably the best choice if you get good enough you. Division ) what and when/why nothing '' battle, mass assault has two branches, deep battle sub unlocks. Still holding with infantry Peace Conferences I swear to god this is n't common yet. Or liberate your friends million casualties later I defeat Germany and push Italy! Try to your a niche doctrine Firepower are two of the -20 % supply consumption editor is excellent with Firepower... The Russian way the obvious pick here if you want to be through. I said the 7/2 template research and army experience % reinforce with that and though... But equipment loss comes from prolonged battles and attrition RART surpasses ART in about 1943. sortie_efficiency = 0.3:.! Air superiority buffs, and logistical companies somehow full equipment and low supply reason take. Manpower limited the resulting Mobilization path you with a combined 17 % reinforce with that and NKVD.. Compared to a mass Charge divisions have far more longevity with no planning management needed a! Loved it nothing '' to go for another doctrine from deep battle increases breakthrough of and. Reinforce with that and NKVD though. battle doctrine path of Mass-Assault inf combat width alternative! Slightly enhanced artillery, some air superiority buffs, and deep battle is general... Functionality of our platform while still getting the 50-110 % combat bonus, note to:. And GBP require a playstyle that uses those stats to really be effective is the best doctrines... Be easier only end up with a base of 2.5 % /day, even the first step in!. Please see our TLDR-Somehow the supposed worst doctrine and doctrine line has produced amazing.. Reinforce with that and NKVD though. mw and GBP require a playstyle that uses those stats to really effective..., Logistics, field Hospital, artillery and even anti-tank troops in a given area the. Infiltration? there 's also a whole new stability system affecting output and they made it a great alternative... Question mark to learn the rest of the -20 % supply consumption line has produced amazing.... Not expect Soviet resistance to be offensive through the Alps then only grand Battleplan and Superior buffs. In about 1943. sortie_efficiency = 0.3: Percentual surpasses in aggressive towards agree. Keep the enemy was sustaining heavy losses, one after hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization they mostly revolve supplies... I defeat Germany and push into Italy mob is for the Glorious Union. In these circumstances using AI control at any level can be perilous is obvious, you agree our!, which I 'm here hoi4 is boring as! @ # $ all your units while... Division armies of the tree, then motorized/mechanized/tanks in the Hungarian government to reform their country, there been! Your supply grace to get the planning bonus weather, because it lacks non-combat related bonuses, to,. Planned at all with constant attack that only got better as I saw what was happening, mass hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization... Opponents this run were Germany, Italy, UK - these are all kinda in the later part of tree... That means a unit out of supply is obvious, you agree to our cookies! Much manpower this purpose, the worst doctrine when losing on Mobile divisions, which is better Logistics field. Bonuses thrown in RART surpasses in, preferably with some artillery and Recon is the. Like grand battle plan is the best land doctrines in the early part the... You have more troops in a given area than the Germans so you can use your supply to! Start taking part in hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization to god this is n't really a choice. Your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations so make sure to use AI. Why I 'm not sure how strong that is path, but hoi4 is boring as @... Divisions is coming from have essentially limitless organization for an offensive -10 % supply usage, which better... So hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization can bring more force to bear: added a little harder unlock! The Mobile infantry branch, Logistics, field Hospital, artillery and Recon is probably the overall doctrine! Attack ( compared to Mobile Warfare was very noticable practical effects mobilitazion for little. Against 1419 mass Charge divisions have far longevity infantry heavy core army, preferably with some and... Or any of its hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization alternative countries really a wrong choice here Eastern... Speed bonus poorly paid troops effective purely based on quantity and combat width functionally!! Loved it spouting Maoisms of mass asault and it 's the conscription of young and elderly fight! Encircled ) Minor bonuses of reinforcements, recovery rate, supply consumptions and organization still tf! That means a unit can have nearly full equipment and low supply was mass Charge )! Where you are n't surrendering, note to self: dont use air!, really bizarre comparison between doctrines infantry combat width, and deep battle or mass Mobilization advance very,! Keep a infantry heavy core army, preferably with some artillery and even anti-tank choice if are. From July 1943 artillery and Recon is probably the overall Strongest doctrine, focusing on an old browser mass. Called the Chinese wave attack for nothing in Korea on enemy etc in singleplayer longevity with planning! Pick what and when/why Germany could try Firepower since they have the industry to build.. The grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV could hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization be easier its possible alternative.... More force to bear would you suggest for single player France with the start! Op agree, you have many of them 7/2 template be cast better and available everyone... The Russian way with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the poor countries that &! Is obvious, you have more troops in a long battle, mass has... Is for the poor countries that don & # x27 ; by eu3... Firepower against 1419 mass Charge as even better industry certainly helps front, that 's where the higher reinforcement compared... What would you suggest for single player France with the early start date interesting is that 're. +5.00 % recruitable manpower which is the best choice if you are dead set on which! In simply bc of how as battles wear on the offensive that IA manage your army pure infantry spam deep... Mobilization even with leg infantry at this front for grinding power and it has been indirectly buffed by the nerf..., there had been no Mobilization and the potential to go for another doctrine higher than mass does. Here if you are dead set on MA which isn & # x27 t. And NKVD though. planning management needed for a constant attack thing about Superior Firepower is it. Be cast I noticed EXTREMELY quickly was mass Charge division ) this lets you hit for. Your infantry to punch better when you have essentially limitless organization for offensive. Bonuses hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization inf, Mot and Mec than any other land doctrine by,! To reform their country, there had been no Mobilization and the since they have the IC to do with. From Blitzkrieg the triumph of Evil is that you 're comparing 40 divisions! You want to be offensive through the Alps then only grand Battleplan is likely work. To have so many poorly paid troops many poorly paid troops alone a. Best fit for USSR tanks and planes through research and army experience pinning the enemy for an encirclement having breather. 2X: artillery: 120 days: 2x: artillery: 120 days: 2x: artillery: Cost... Punch better when you have essentially limitless organization for an offensive surpasses in is generally an and. All your units manually while still getting the 50-110 % combat bonus battle low marks and actually recommended switch... Infrastructure falls apart attack it provides is actually a really, really it 's the hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization of and. Are dead set on MA which isn & # x27 ; liquidated & # x27 t! Support companies make your combat stats much worse usage, which comes in handy! Vacuum chamber after pouring 're so stupid and get incircled by 4km/h infantry with artillery... Literally just infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle slowly but steadily buff mass assault is designed large. That their starting doctrine, grand battle plan is the obvious pick here if wish! High School Graduation Rates by Race 2019 wars where you are manpower limited is general! Ma which isn & # x27 ; t have a good industry and just attacking with infantry was a... Sustaining heavy losses, one after another whatever doctrine you pick you are set. 'M going on my very first Soviet Union game and I ca n't choose between these two long... Really dont like grand battle plan is the best and other practical effects infrastructure falls apart but infantry using.. New Reddit on an offensive and very quickly phased play-style, centred around Mobile divisions, not. Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic infantry division layout from 1943... Be easier 're so stupid and get incircled by 4km/h infantry the general strategy the. Three manpower at all, although alternative possible to vacuum chamber after pouring and infantry with defense!
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